Fifty Shades of Gender podcast graphic with Jen Hartmann

Episode 63

A conversation with Jen Hartmann


41 min. Recorded on 21 September 2021. 

Jen is pretty much ok with all the traditional pronouns, but prefers he/him. He is non-binary and also identifies as bigender. Find out what that means to Jen in this episode.

We also talk about growing up with a very gendered language, being expected to fit into cultural and gendered stereotypes, disrupting the fashion industry and the future of innovation, how clothes are an integral part of gender expression, navigating entrepreneurship and the challenges that come with doing your own thing, surrendering to divine timing, and that one size does not fit all.

“My energy is very different when I wear male clothes and when I feel that I might be read more male, and I feel more empowered. But oddly enough I also feel more empowered in that sense when I’m presenting very very femme…when I wear like a really sexy body-hugging dress that is totally over-the-top female, it empowers me too.”

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TRANSCRIPT [expand to read] – COMING SOON

About Jen

“I’m Jen and I’m a non-binary fashion designer and radical Faerie. My label is called Baal and works with and on a new size system for the transfemale community. Also, I am the founder of the Jender podcast and the co-founder of the queer blog and event calendar outbutin. In my creative work, I often use the principle of subtle asymmetry, which makes people’s heads turn without them knowing why. 🙂

You can find Jen’s fashion label, Baal Fashion, on and on Instagram @baalfashion and Facebook @baalfashion, and the out but in project on and on Instagram @outbutin.

What we discussed & useful links

  • We Create Space – a global collective of LGBTQ+ change-makers empowering their communities and allies with tools, knowledge and a support network for self-care, personal growth and Queer Leadership
  • Carnival
  • The Jender Podcast

Wanna hear more?